The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

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Peter Liddell
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The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby Peter Liddell » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:41 pm

Ok I'm going to make a list of the things i KNOW are incorrect in the timetable and short explanations where I feel like it:
Updated July 3rd 2014

1)
PBA Flights should not be all DC-3s
We should have some (about 50%) of the flights as Cessna 402s... No 402 model out there.
FIXED

2)
Too Many DC-10 flights
We have ALL the long DC-10 routes, this never happened at the same time, LGW was daily for only 2 months, MAD only planned, etc

3)
BOS-LGA Shuttle flights were never all A300 operated.
Yes but they were all SCHEDULED as A300 even though only about half were flown with the Airbus, I may fix this soon.

4)
SJA flew to Bader Field not Atlantic City International
Done to accomidate lack of AIY facility in FSX, pilots welcome to use AIY or ACY

5)
PBA, Continental Express by PBA, Metro Airlines (Texas) and Eastern Partner by LIAT flight numbers are best guesses
Times, routings, etc all verified by alternate sources, usually providing airline's own schedule, but EA flight numbers are either partially (PBA) or totally (COEXPBA and LIAT) educated guesses. We know PBA's flight number sequences but not the actual flight numbers except for the BOS-MVY/ACK/HYA flights.
If you have correct information for 86 or 87, send it my way


6)
There are too many flights, Eastern never flew so many flights!
Our timetable is a hybrid of several years in the mid 80s, and as such yes there are more flights on our timetable than Eastern ever actually operated at any single time. The base timetable is from the summer of 86, because we have both EA timetable and OAG flight guide material for that period. To that we've added more El-Interamericano, Trans-Atlantic, west coast and some additional Florida flights. Additionally Eastern Express is a compilation of the maximal flying for Eastern Metro Express, Eastern Atlantis Express, Metro Airlines, Precision and Southern Jersey, which varied considerably between 1984 and 1990.
*Bar Harbor and PBA are running on a summer 88 timetable (this was the final period for DC-3 flying in FL except MIA-EYW, allows the Saab and ATR to be represented and pretty much mixes equipment and runs up to allow for maximum options); \
*Precision, Atlantis and SJA are from 86 (best information available);
*EMX is from 87 (before SJU flying was spun off and Atlantis was absorbed);
*Metro Airlines is from 84 (major shakeup in 85 resulted in flying for EA from IAH being cut almost totally).
*Air Midwest was fairly stable between 86 and 88, ours is from 86 with some minor additions from non-EA runs to allow maximum flight options ex-MCI. Only real annoyance with AMW is the fact they always swapped aircraft around, Saabs and Metros could end up on almost any run at any time (For EA anyways, for non-EA there were some cities restricted to Metro/J31 flying) despite the fact that both EA and OAG timetables list S34 and SWM equipment on specific runs :evil:

7)The Moonlight special flew 727s too!
Yes it did, but we don't have timetabling of where/when. Moonlight Special flying is one of those things that is not consistent, probably because CF airfreight wanted different runs at different times. DC-9s were also used near the end on some routes, but it was mostly A300s through-out.
FIXED

8)I flew an L1011 on EAxxx back in 19xx, but in the schedule its showing as an A300!
Possible, EA switched L1011 and A300s around alot, and even 757s. Timetables changed all the time.

9) The DC-9-10 should be retired by 1986
This is true, the last DC-9-14 retired from the EA fleet in 1980, the scheduled flights are there to allow the aircraft to be flown. We need to make some allowances for things like this ;)
FIXED - DC-9-14 now available in Whisperliner era only.

10) Where's flight XXX to ZZZ?
Again we can't cover every flight ever flown by EA, if you have a specific flight that was flown in the mid 80s (or any of the other eras though we are more strict with those) that you would like to see added please PM or email me and I'll be happy to discuss it.

11) Why are no shuttle flights flown with 727-100s?
Shuttle flights were all scheduled as 727-200 or A300 in 1986. 2 single class 727-100s were kept (along with up to 4 727-200s) on weekdays for extra sections in LGA, BOS and DCA. 727-100s may be used on all shuttle flights listed for 727-200 Monday to Friday. A 727-100 with Shuttle Plus markings is available.

More to be added when i feel like typing them...
(updated June 17 2015)
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loonybin
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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby loonybin » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:18 pm

Reply to #1 - If we have a Cessna 402 (found on flightsim.com) can we use it instead of the DC3 until one becomes available in EVA?

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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby Kyle Bjorklund » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:13 pm

Good explanations, Peter.
I know that there are some times that Virtual Airlines have to take a little bit of "Poetic License" in setting up their flights.
Sometimes it's difficult to find good models for aircraft and it's usually a good idea to make an amalgamation of flights over the years, rather than concentrating on only one specific time of operations.

As always - keep up the great work.
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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby loonybin » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:23 pm

Additional information on a model for Cessna 492. The flyable model Cessna 402 I found on FlightSim.com is for FS2004 but has an updated aircraft.cfg file for use in FSX. The file is c402bv1.zip. I've flown it using a different panel and it seems to work well. Hope this could solve the problems with PBA flights and schedules.

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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby Peter Liddell » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:35 pm

loonybin wrote:Reply to #1 - If we have a Cessna 402 (found on flightsim.com) can we use it instead of the DC3 until one becomes available in EVA?


Yes feel free, I haven't had a chance to recheck on it lately.
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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby loonybin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:08 am

Thanks Peter. I hope you get a chance to try it. It might clear up some of the questions with the poll on PBA schedules throughout VEA. I'll use the DC3 to island hop and the 402 to fly to and from.

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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby Peter Liddell » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:01 am

Well basically if you want to be close to accurate for our timetable:

For New England everything should be C402 EXCEPT the LGA to MVY/ACK/Hyannis flights
For Florida, almost everything should be DC3 except flights to Marco Island.
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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby loonybin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:33 pm

Thanks for that information. I'll adjust my flights accordingly. I prefer to fly the actual schedules, like continuation flights with the same number.

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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby Peter Liddell » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:50 pm

PBA is good for those, so is Bar Harbor's New England ops :)

But the grand-daddy milk runs are on Eastern Partner/LIAT out of San Juan:

5473&5474 (the same flight, broken in 2 because our system didn't process the 6th and later segments. Flight number is a best guess anyways.)
and 5470/5471 return:

Flight Departs from Arrives at Departure Time Arrival Time Equip. Freq Remarks Req Pnts
5473 San Juan, PR (TJSJ) St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles (TNCM) 06:00 07:05 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5473 St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles (TNCM) Antigua, West Indies (TAPA) 07:15 08:20 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5473 Antigua, West Indies (TAPA) Fort de France, Martinique (TFFF) 08:35 09:35 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5474 Fort de France, Martinique (TFFF) St. Lucia, West Indies (TLPC) 09:45 10:05 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5474 St. Lucia, West Indies (TLPC) Barbados, Barbados (TBPB) 10:20 11:05 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5474 Barbados, Barbados (TBPB) Port of Spain, Trinidad (TTPP) 11:30 13:05 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 2

5470 Port of Spain, Trinidad (TTPP) Barbados, Barbados (TBPB) 07:30 08:15 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 2
5470 Barbados, Barbados (TBPB) St. Lucia, West Indies (TLPC) 08:30 09:15 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5470 St. Lucia, West Indies (TLPC) Fort de France, Martinique (TFFF) 09:30 09:55 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5471 Fort de France, Martinique (TFFF) Antigua, West Indies (TAPA) 10:10 11:15 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5471 Antigua, West Indies (TAPA) St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles (TNCM) 11:30 12:35 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
5471 St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles (TNCM) San Juan, PR (TJSJ) 13:00 14:35 HS.748 1234567 Opd by: LIAT as Eastern Partner 1
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Re: The Things I know are wrong in the timetable

Postby GabyBee » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:06 am

Peter Liddell wrote:2)
Too Many DC-10 flights
We have ALL the long DC-10 routes, this never happened at the same time, LGW was daily for only 2 months, MAD only operated for about 6 months, etc



Actually, Madrid was never flown. It was posted in one of the mid-1986 timetables, and Eastern took reservations for its launch, posted advertisements for it, etc. but it was cancelled at the last minute. The public reason was that they hadn't seen good sales with the reservations, and so instead of launching it with low load factors, they scrapped it altogether. The not-so-public reason was that its proposed launch coincided with the Texas Air buyout, and Frank Lorenzo quietly shuffled all of Eastern's planned trans-Atlantic assets and proposals over to Continental. I don't think Miami-Gatwick lasted into 1987 for that very reason.

I think there's a degree of truth to the public reason too, though, given Spain's political turmoil throughout the first half of the 1980s. There was an attempted military coup in 1981, and Franco's grave was still relatively freshly dug, not to mention all of the ETA terrorist bombings and assassinations that didn't really end until only a few years ago - 2010 is the latest ceasefire they've claimed, but they've broken several in the past, so we'll see how long it lasts...

Anyway... main point... Eastern never actually flew any flights between Miami and Madrid.
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